November 7, 2012
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Obama wins, we all lose.
The title is a tiny but provocative, sure, the point if this post would remain the same had Romney won.
“Democracy is like three wolves and a sheep Voting for what they want to eat for dinner.”
That’s a great quote and it kind of sums up what democracy actually is. When you really sit down and think about it, your vote almost always strips somebody else of their liberty. And believe it or not your vote will most likely strip you of your liberty.
For example, the state of Washington just legalized marijuana for recreational use. A sizable majority of the population voted to allow that kind of use. Sounds like a big win for democracy right? Consenting adults can now recreationally use marijuana. They’re even allowed to grow marijuana if they choose.
But think about what they had to give up in order to do that. Marijuana will now be taxed at 25% from the manufacturer to the seller and then another 25% from the seller to the consumer. In other words, you have to give up your property in order to engage in your “right” to use marijuana.
That’s not liberty, that’s theft.
And what about the victories yesterday in the gay marriage arena? Both the state of Maryland and the state of Maine, By popular vote, legalized same-sex marriage. Again, that sounds incredible. The government in those states are no longer restricting people from engaging in personal and private matters. But are they really?
Marriage, if you remember correctly, comes along with this little thing called a “marriage license.” Again, something The government requires you to pay for in order to engage in “free” activities. Not withstanding the fact that married couples get more rights than single people. There is a long list of things that married people can have that unmarried people cannot.
Is this freedom or liberty? Or is this a way for the government to legislate “morality.”
I’m not saying anything bad about gay people but you fought for the wrong thing! You fought to reinforce the idea that the government can give you benifits for doing what it wants you to do!
All this legislation, all these “freedoms” that we all received simply reinforced the idea that the government deserves and should be granted unlimited control of our lives and our money. And what makes it extra scary is that we all voted for it. We were given a choice of tyranny, it didn’t matter what we chose, because we would lose our rights anyway. We can “legalize” whatever we want, but it doesn’t make the compromise any more bearable for liberty minded people.
Because every single time you vote, you are stripping away the rights of you and the people around you by allowing the government to have control over every little aspect of our lives. By voting, you are allowing them to plunder our income and our property. You are putting your stamp of approval on slavery and theft.
You are allowing them to take what is ours so that we can have what is already ours.
Comments (47)
“The cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.”
- Oscar Wilde.
That about sums it up.
This is definitely food for thought. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!
A democracy lets majority rule and tends to take away individual rights. We live in a republic designed to protect individual rights.
“Liberty is a well armed sheep contesting the vote.”
Discussing with my son the other day the disregard of the U.S. Constitution and giving the individual states the powers not specifically designated to the federal government. We agreed this would allow more diverse “countries” (each individual state) more suitable to meet the specific needs of a diverse population. It also would provide more chance to observe what works for society and what does not.
The overall solution is more indepence & self sufficiency. Do away with the huge conglomerates (including the federal government) that puts too much power in too few hands.
Stupid post. Ridiculous.
Yeah yeah, taxes and licence fees…So what? You missed the boat entirely.
The key word is LEGAL.
@Bricker59 - I’m not a huge fan of justfine’s, but in his defense, “legal” is the keyword, you just missed his point, the ramifications of the fact that it’s now legal. Namely… His closing statement.
Reading comprehension fail.
@Under_the_Ghillie - Sorry, I disagree. The advantages to being legally married, be it pensions, insurance, or whatever…are now available to gay couples. No plundering what they already had there. Same as legalizing pot. Sure folks grew and smoked it before but could pay a harsh price if charged. This is like the end of Prohibition, yeah it’s taxed now, but you won’t get shot or sent to prison.
I’d say you failed here, not me.
@Bricker59 - You’re still not getting it. NONE of that is the issue. NONE OF IT.
How can I reduce this for you?
What’s being said is that, by the very fact that we voted on these things, we substantiated the claim that the government had the right or authority to deny them to us in the first place, or to regulate them to begin with.
If you still can’t figure this out, don’t bother replying. I don’t have time for this 2 + 2 = 4 bullshit.
@Bricker59 - Same things with those drivers license fees, alcohol taxes, cigarette taxes, goods-and-services-taxes, etc.
It’s just “theft”. Obviously.
@Billy_Austin714 - I agree with you on the concept that we need to be more self reliant. However our government was designed to protect us from the tyranny of anarchy. We tried a government with a weak federal government, it didn’t work. By the same token we have tried a big government, and it has not worked. Life, nay all of Existence is balance. Too weak of a federal government and the country will fall apart. Too strong, and the system ultimately will collapse. That is why we have separation of powers. Not only in the federal government, but also between federal and state governments. In our current era the federal government has exceeded its bounds and tried to do the jobs of the states, and in so doing has neglected its federal responsibilities. The system is out of balance, and we must return that balance. But to do so we must trust in a God and trust in ourselves knowing that the transition will be hard, but the the destination is worth it. To have 50 states, all protected under our constitution, but each being unique and separate states, allows the people of California to live as they want, but also the people of Texas not live as they wish.
We must learn to let others live their lives as they wish. That is why we have a federal system, and it is critical to the survival of our Republic.
“You are allowing them to take what is ours so that we can have what is already ours.”
Exactly. Isn’t it so sad that some of the people who think they are so smart are so brainwashed or brain dead that they cannot think in these terms?
@obamawatch -
Excuse me for the confusion. I did not intend to do away with federal government, rather do away with the huge machine it has become and limit its function to what is specifically designated in the constitution.
@Billy_Austin714 - Oh well… Carry on then.
@Bricker59 - “…are now available to gay couples”
I’m sorry, but what about single people????
Did you read the post?
Paying taxes and fees is better than jail time, so it is still a net win for liberty. Don’t you agree?
Isn’t it interesting that the states are making legal what is illegal (not legal) under Federal law. A (license) fee/tax is small — the penalty for breaking the Federal law can be much greater!
Someone will have to pay for healthcare. At least the insurance companies are no longer able to deny coverage for a pre existing condition.(The Insurance company commits theft when they try to deny some folks coverage)
Someone will be able to buy marijuana in California if they have a doctor’s prescription but who monitors the folks with prescriptions that issues some of the pot to under aged people?
The Republican legislators tried to take away the privilege to vote. A lot of the elderly have no identification cards because they do not drive. College going people found stricter rules for voting too. Large cities had long lines to vote and some cynics justify it because they are of the wrong race.
Why not free burritos?
i’d find this post more compelling if i was completely ignorant of historical movements of equality. sorry, looks like i’m too educated to agree with you.
@tjordanm - This, from a guy whose country incarcerates more people than the rest of the world COMBINED.
Do you even understand WHY there are marriage licenses?
@Billy_Austin714 - Further proof my ideology of fascism is the right one. Democracy is a failure. Your recent elections prove this.
@Under_the_Ghillie - Then why have a government at all? WTF? Anarchism is your choice, no doubt. Welcome CHAOS!
@cmdr_keen - Guess you don’t want all those roads? All those bridges? All those schools? Airports? Social programs? I could go on… but you think those appear out of thin air, no doubt.
@obamawatch - Your problem lies in the fact you give your states too much power. You need to centralise the power.
“Someone will have to pay for healthcare. At
least the insurance companies are no longer able to deny coverage for a
pre existing condition.(The Insurance company commits theft when they
try to deny some folks coverage)”
The very reason we have nationalised healthcare here in Canada.
@flapper_femme_fatale - *ROTLFMAO* This guy just called you a ‘moron’.
@CanuckFascist -
You did not understand then, I do not expect you to now. What was written on Woody Guthrie’s guitar?
@Billy_Austin714 - You already did that one. You are getting old with your posts. Same thing, over and over again. Time for a new schtick.
@CanuckFascist -
*mirrored*
@Under_the_Ghillie - The government didn’t “regulate” marriage as a commitment or a religious ceremony, it “regulated” the legal transfer of property upon death, who makes medical decisions for them when someone is in a coma, who gets what benefits, what is legally considered “family” in family insurance and thousands of other things that have been legally disputed for many years. What is the alternative to using the courts and legislatures to settle disagreements? You get your way and nobody else does? Your notion of “freedom” is a very naive, emotional one. People are always going to disagree about the details which is why we have redress of grievances in this country and we give courts the right to settle the matter when you think you should inherit something and someone else thinks they should inherit it too.
As for the taxes are tyranny stuff, without taxes and government civilization would collapse. I mean if all the government did was build and maintain roads and bridges they’re the equivalent of the nation’s circulatory system and allow modern commerce and metropolitan life to exist at all – letting them crumble would have the same effect on our economy as squeezing your throat and stopping the blood from circulating in your body.
As I said, it’s just focusing on the price tag and ignoring the immense rewards we get for that cost. Cynicism as a political worldview.
*yawn* It must suck being so dense.
@PPhilip - An insurance company is a private company. They do not commit theft when they attempt to deny a person coverage, they commit…business.
Does the bank commit theft when they choose to deny an unemployed vagrant a loan for a mansion?
Perhaps that’s too ambiguous. Let me simplify… does pizza hut commit theft when they limit their delivery area to a certain geographical distance relative to their store?
It’s a private business. They aren’t obligated to provide insurance, therefore they can’t be stealing from someone they refuse to cover.
Ugh. Entitlement.
Guess what guys, BAD SHIT HAPPENS. Yes, we can help people in need, but forcing someone to do it against their will is not the answer.
@winniezpoo - You might like my new blog. It’s about how unbelievably racist your comment is.
@Under_the_Ghillie - Yeah, down with the police and the army! We should’ve had bake sales to raise the 22.6 billion dollars it cost to stop the nazis from becoming the first nuclear power. That would’ve worked.
And we all know voluntary giving will work, I mean who can resist an ad requesting money to pay for road construction. Those poor roads, they pull on our heartstrings. If anything we’ll give more than enough. I mean the united way is the largest charity in the US and they raise over 3 billion dollars a year in donations. That would pay for… a few small states states to maintain their roads badly.
@agnophilo - I’m just curious, how many times will I have to ignore you before you realize that continuing to engage me just makes you look needy, and pathetic?
Just curious.
@Under_the_Ghillie - You’re right, I’m so pathetic. I mean responding to an intelligent, logical counter-argument with petty personal insults is just proves that your position is the more valid one.
Dick waving ad hom bullshit from someone who has no argument.
@agnophilo - I know this is hard to understand for someone who needs validation, but some of us are content in our positions, and don’t need to incessantly discuss or defend them.
Btw, my not engaging you is not evidence of a lack of argument on my part. It’s evidence of a lack of trust in your ability to comprehend.
Clearly you enjoy wasting time. I don’t.
@winniezpoo - slave? you’re a racist piece of crap. seriously.
@Under_the_Ghillie - then why did you post here and discuss your position? seriously, you’re whining about posting your opinion on a public forum, and having someone engage you in debate. i don’t think agno is the one who’s dense.
@Under_the_Ghillie - Um, I was responding to a comment you left arguing with someone. Now you’re talking about how I’m insecure in my position because I disagreed with you? If you don’t want or need to argue your position wtf are you doing trolling the comment section of political blogs?
Condescension and personal attacks are not a valid form of argument. They are however proof that you have no argument.
@flapper_femme_fatale - Yeah really.
@flapper_femme_fatale - I know, I was thinking the same thing.
@Under_the_Ghillie - Rewriting the terms of agreement (yes insurance companies made a contract) and RENEGING is Fucking thief. You can’t obuscate the principle.
Banks making loans with poor collateral and passing the loans onto the next sucker is fucking fraud.
Perhaps you are under the fog of propaganda or truly a paid shill for positions that are undefendable, whatever.
Entitlement or obligation? You decided it was entitlement. However if you have the nerve to help expose the small crooks, you certainly also need to expose the Big crooks who are stealing money right in front of you.
@PPhilip - Ah, see, but that’s not what you said. You said refusing to cover someone, you didn’t say denying a customer coverage. There’s a difference.
“Banks making loans with poor collateral and passing the loans onto the next sucker is fucking fraud.”
And I suppose there should be no fault laid on the shoulders of the people who took out a loan they knew they couldn’t pay, right? And no, you’re wrong again. They don’t “pass off” loans, there are other banks that BUY those debts, WILLINGLY. That’s not thievery, it’s just perhaps bad business decisions on the part of the buyers. Not to mention, wasn’t it your precious democrat party that forced banks to start making loans w/o even proof of income because good old Freddie and Fannie would underwrite them?
@agnophilo - ”Um, I was responding to a comment you left arguing with someone”
Now you’re getting there, genius. The conversation didn’t involve you, you decided to jump in. That’s fine, this is a public forum, but it does not compel me to debate you. It’s not a matter of being willing to discuss issues. It’s that you’re notorious for made up facts, and absolutely unable to comprehend any position other than your own. What would be the point of engaging you? Like I said, I don’t waste time.
No, I’m not saying you’re insecure in your position because you disagreed with me. I’m saying that because you continue to try to argue with someone who’s basically told you you’re a worthless fuck, and dumber than a box of rocks. That’s kinda needy.
@Under_the_Ghillie - “Now
you’re getting there, genius. The conversation didn’t involve you, you
decided to jump in. That’s fine, this is a public forum, but it does not
compel me to debate you.”
You’re plenty willing to keep responding, just not willing to back up your bullshit claims when asked for evidence (because there is none). I gave evidence without being asked that busted your claim, you refused to give evidence in support of it when asked. You lose the argument, period. That’s how debates work.
“It’s not a matter of being willing to discuss
issues. It’s that you’re notorious for made up facts,”
Which ironically, is something you just pulled out of your ass. Another personal attack, zero substance.
“and absolutely
unable to comprehend any position other than your own. What would be the
point of engaging you? Like I said, I don’t waste time.”
Another personal attack. You pretend you’re some high intellect towering above me and I can’t possibly comprehend your great wisdom but you say nothing of substance whatsoever. Contempt and derision is not intellectualism, it’s being a dick with no argument. Just man up and say “yeah gas prices spiked before obama took office, I was wrong about that”.
“No, I’m
not saying you’re insecure in your position because you disagreed with
me. I’m saying that because you continue to try to argue with someone
who’s basically told you you’re a worthless fuck, and dumber than a box
of rocks. That’s kinda needy.”
Yes, calling someone out on a bullshit argument is “needy”. Your attitude is so stereotypical of the conservative movement, you lose an argument and you need to externalize blame and tell yourself someone else is a piece of shit just for being right, and conservatives have to tell themselves obama won not because their views and policies are less popular but because young people are stupid or minorities “stole” the country from them. Not getting your way is always someone else’s fault. Boo fucking hoo.
@agnophilo - Have a great day Mark.
@Under_the_Ghillie - I am glad you are now aboard the movement to stop having companies denying folks coverage who were previously covered.
I am glad Washington Mutual is no longer in business. Who did the fucking cheating will hopefully get prosecuted but I am not holding my breath on that either. Basically you do not agree on the cleanup job the government did?(oh wait you don’t want to give credit to those who worked out a solution)
BTW did you know that Newt Gingrich was an official lobbyist for fannie mae?
BTW shit happens and Obama negociated with BP on the oil spill mess. Can you imagine Mitt Romney or Dick Cheney negociating? Most likely they would recluse themselves from the negociations because they are too tied into BP
@winniezpoo - Oh my goodness I really hope you didn’t mean this they way it sounded
This election was horrid and I have only heard a few of the horror stories; there are many. Sorry to upset the” left wing” but I have a right to my opinions on this election and, unlike some here, I am not going to the sites of the fools who put BO back in office for another four years of draining the middle class dry to insult or chastise them. I happen to work five days a week and work very hard for my money and honestly, what I do is help the poor and struggling from 7:30 to 3:00 and sometimes later. I have done it very well for over 26 years and I am even the grandmother of a biracial child I love dearly. I never even asked for a school to work for in the “rich” section of town and everyone who knows me knows how I am: loving, caring and a facilitator for positive change. For those of you who believe this election is good news, then great. I hope you enjoy paying up when the time comes. It will. BTW, when I went to the registration table to get my ballot, they told me I had already voted and then I discovered the machine would not take my ballot. I waited an hour for that untruthful news! I had not voted until Tuesday morning but I bet I know how that “little glitch” happened. I have turned it in to the powers that be.