May 28, 2012
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Pro-Choice
“you should have the right to choose what happens to your own body, unless your an unborn baby, then you no longer have that choice”
I’m pro-choice, which is why I’m against abortion. The child should be allowed to choose.
“you should have the right to choose what happens to your own body, unless your an unborn baby, then you no longer have that choice”
I’m pro-choice, which is why I’m against abortion. The child should be allowed to choose.
Comments (68)
I’m sure the child would choose to be born into a chaotic life where he/she is abused, neglected, goes without what he/she needs because of the lack of financial stability. I’m also sure he/she would choose to be born into a society that deeply cares about his or her well being as long as they’re in the womb then suddenly, once it’s born, demand that the parents not be given any help or resources to give him/her a good life even though these same people begged and pleaded that the child be “given a chance at life” even though it’s not a very good one. Yep, I’m positive they would choose that.
I don’t consider its needs to override the mother’s until it can feel pain the way a mammal does.
@Saridactyl - Isn’t it ironic? The same people who hate welfare (and I’m one of them, but I’m pro-choice) bitch at the welfare moms who chose to bare their children into a world that couldn’t afford them. I’d advocate adoption, though. But I’m sure that’s easier said than done.
I was a teenage mom, my son is almost 16 and I’m 31, do the numbers. I decided to get married and I adore my children but I must say that giving a 15 year old the responsibility if a child is not the right thing to do. Also I’m pro choice because there’s a number of circumstances aside of teeange motherhood that would make it necesary…health issues, drug abuse, mothers with 8 -12 children, rape (36% of women in my country get raped at least once in their life), motherhood isn’t for anyone so not everyone should be forced into motherhood ever.
If every cell of our body has the right to grow then all men are guilty of killing tons of them by masturbation or a simple wet dream.
Education is the tool to prevent adolescent motherhood but it doesn’t solve health issues, rape victims, drug abusers moms and a long list of situations that call for an abortion.
My advice to you is that if you don’t like abortion well, don’t get one, that way you’re not forced to do something you don’t want and you’re not denying other people’s rights.
Everyone deserves a chance at life, even if the odds are against them. The fact that their life may be difficult doesn’t cancel out their right to life.
…And, there are literally thousands of couples that want an infant. You just have to find one, make a settlement, and give them the child when she’s born. It’s literally that simple.
A lot of people say that “Older children don’t get adopted, though, so adoption doesn’t work!” Well. That’s why it’s good to give them up for adoption while they’re infants..and then it does work.
My dad was 59 and mom was 39 when I was born. That was in 1933. I am now 78. Life was simpler then.
No matter what anyone says, abortion means the death of a human being. Unless the mother’s life was in danger, that means murder. Like so many other things, people seem to think if they can make the government sanction it, it must be okay. They are in for a big surprise when they meet the LORD.
I was born in 1930, during the depression years. It’s hard, almost impossible for today’s generation to imagine what it was like then. When I was born I was facing a life as described by @Saridactyl
Indeed, I remember some hard, almost intolerable times the first ten years or so of my life. But here I am at age 82 and still enjoying life. I’m glad mom didn’t decide I would be better off if she had me executed in her womb.
@dsullivan - Wow. What a powerful comment. Thank you.
There are plenty of stories of disadvantaged children who grew up to be leaders and lived fulfilling lives. Who are we anyway, infallible fortune tellers, to be able to predict that a person whom God has formed is unworthy to give life a try?
@Saridactyl
- Your view of life is naive at best. Gosh isn’t that what life is all about,
the ups and downs? The idea that someone rich can provide a better more stable
emotional balanced upbringing is very wrong and assumptive. One only has to look
at how all the movies stars raise their children and it becomes obvious the rich
and famous cannot even come close to providing the emotionally healthy
upbringing in comparison to a dirt poor godly Christian family like the Walton’s
could. And they were a real life poor family that grew up during the great
depression, documented through biography. One has to only look as far as the
Presidency to see a poverty stricken person that grew up to be the president. It
doesn’t get much poorer growing up in Indonesia. And yes, I would choose hands
over fist to grow up in a dirt poor Christian conservative family rather then a
child of a Rich as Ass, no for brains, rich progressive parents that were naive
to all the cultural Hollywood trash that is being dished out on a daily basis
via TV sets that are conveniently placed in the children’s bedrooms to distract
the kids so they do not bother the parents. Yep, money is definitely no
guarantee of a quality life and upbringing. Many of the best parents in the
world are poverty stricken or what some would call middle class challenged. And
yes I am sure of it that there are countless Hollywood rich kids that craved
having grown up in a family that loved them rather then being wealthy as they
were. Kids do not remember how many things you bought them but they will
remember how much time you spent with them, helping them navigate those early
first decisions in life. This I am sure of. What is wrong with accountability so
innocent babies can choose life?
@RobertLeeRE - I’m not naive. I understand that each and every situation is different. I never said anything about being “rich”. I mentioned financial stability, meaning that the child is provided for and has everything he/she needs, not that their parents should be rich. Any person who has a child should be financially stable, and I think any person who disagrees with that is naive.
You’re right, being rich has no bearing on the quality of upbringing a child has, I never said it was. BUT poverty stricken families go without the things they need, basic essentials that children DESERVE. If you think that’s okay then you obviously don’t care about the children being born into those situations.
@Saridactyl - Yes you are and that is what you said inferring that financial instability somehow makes it more likely someone would be abused or neglected.. And as far as comparing a family poor with being rich I used that as an example to prove my point which it did. Also, you do not seem to understand how life goes. It goes up and down. There is no best time to have a child. An argument could be made that no one is truly prepared for a child and all the expenses involved. I think your case is WEAK at best. Isay again that how stable financially has VERY LITTLE to do with the actual QUALITY OF LIFE a child experiences. The quality of life has absolutely 100% to do with the spiritual growth of the child, NOT MONEY and NOT FINANCIAL STABILITY. I assure you, if you visited some of the poorest countries of the world you would met children that are much more well rounded with the capacity to love then the rich children in America where all the abortions are occurring. Only in rich countries do we have children with hearts of stone that will kill their parents with a baseball bat while they’re sleeping. Why don’t you just say the real reason you want to abort which is your own evil refusal to take responsability for your overly promisculous lifestyle, We know the truth anyway…
There are so many children whose parent may have aborted them if they had the idea that “they would be better off dead:”
Dave Thomas, founder of Wendy’s
Steve Jobs
Babe Ruth (learned to play baseball in orphanages)
Bo Diddley
Faith Hill
Just to name a quick few whose birth parents chose to not abort them, instead putting them up for adoption. Who is anyone to say someone would be better off dead than grow up in a bad home? If that’s the case, then why not just execute everyone on welfare? Funny, those same people who say these children are better off dead, are the same ones who claim I don’t care about the poor and think they should die… typical Xanga hypocrisy!
@RobertLeeRE - I NEVER said that. Geez. You’re taking the things I say totally out of context. I did not say that poor children are more likely to be abused, All of those ideas in my comment are SEPARATE scenarios. I never said anything about being rich, I did however, say something about financial stability, that does not equal rich. Are you trying to say that children don’t get a bused? Children aren’t neglected? Children don’t go without the things they need? Because I’m not seeing how ANYTHING you’ve said is a response to anything I have said.
Let me try to explain this to you one more time, after that, I’m done. Financial stability doesn’t mean “rich”. It means that the parents have JOBS and money so that they can take their children to the doctor, feed them, give them clothes to wear, etc. Basic human needs. You don’t have to be rich to provide that. Fuck, you act like I’m rich and I’m not. We were/are dirt poor but my mother ALWAYS made sure I had what I needed, so don’t try to explain to me that rich people aren’t somehow better than poor people because you obviously have no clue what I was talking about.
if you don’t understand that, then just don’t bother to comment me. If you THINK that children don’t deserve clothes to wear and food to eat then you’re sorely mistaken.
@grim_truth - I think it’s a bit hypocritical for people to beg someone to carry their child to term when they cannot provide for that child, then propose to cut all funding that feeds children and allows mothers to buy milk for their child. How is that caring about human life?
@Saridactyl - You’re right. Let’s just kill ‘em! Oh wait… folks aren’t calling for the cutting of all funding that feeds children… that’s just a fear-mongering talking point.
@Saridactyl - To claim that women are being responsible for getting abortions because otherwise they would abuse their children…
Really? That is about the most ignorant statement I’ve read in ages. If someone is responsible enough to do that… they wouldn’t KILL the child. A bit of common sense needs to be applied here, dontcha think?
But if kids are better being killed, who else? Elderly? Handicapped?
Most serial killers justify their murders as being beneficial to their victims, too.
@grim_truth - They’re not cutting all the funding, you’re right, but they are cutting funding to programs that help women and children. I watch C-SPAN a lot, I see them all voting on it and proposing ideas. You know, because we need more money to fund the wars that we are in and what not.
Anyway, there is really no need to get that way. I’m trying to be civil here. But while you’re at it, let’s just force women to have children and who gives a shit what kind of life they have! We saved a baby!
@grim_truth - You’re good at twisting words. Btw, not being able to provide for children is a from of abuse.
edit* I also didn’t claim that women were being responsible by having abortions. Where did you get that?
@Saridactyl - twisting words? You’re the one who claimed I was a hypocrite for “beg someone to carry their child to term when they cannot provide for that child, then propose to cut all funding that feeds children and allows mothers to buy milk for their child”
Exactly how is what I said twisting words?
How is making false claims being civil?
Again, you ignore the important questions. If unborn children can be killed because they “may” be abused or neglected, who is next? Who else can be killed?
And quite honestly, who are you to deem they’re better off dead?
I will stick with my argument that I’ve always made. Unborn children are scientifically human. They have their own unique DNA code, that is seperate from the mother’s. Therefore, they are entitled to basic human rights, including, but not limited to, the right to life.
@Saridactyl - I DO UNDERSTAND and I think that is what bothers you. Sweatheart, these are all reletive terms that means nothing. Rich to one person is poor to the next. People in America in compared as to most nations of the earth are considered rich if measured on a scale. I am only saying your statements come across as very ignorant of the HUMAN SPIRIT and HUMAN CONDITION. If you think that people have somehow only struggled to provide for children what you called FINANCIAL STABILITY in these last 50 years since abortion has been legal you are wrong. By the way. No one here is begging women to raise children they do not want. Just be accountable for adulthood, stop killing your babies and quit looking for excuses and approval from others to enable your lifestyle, and give those babies up for adoption. QUIT KILLING THEM. It seems to me you are not being a very good advocate for love.
i’m always interested in hearing how pro-lifers propose that women be good mothers for 9 months. i’m pro-choice… if i got pregnant right now, i’d abort in a heartbeat. what makes you think that, if you can force me to carry the pregnancy to term, you can force me to take care of it? i’m not going to stop drinking or smoking for a fetus i don’t want. i also won’t take time off of work to see a doctor. i couldn’t care less if that fetus ends up deformed or dead.
@RobertLeeRE -
“The quality of life has absolutely 100% to do with the spiritual growth of the child, NOT MONEY and NOT FINANCIAL STABILITY.”
i’d have to disagree with you on that. as a child, my spiritual life was (at best) confusing and founded on ignorance. the financial stability of my family, on the other hand, is what allowed me to focus on my education and future. and no, we weren’t that wealthy. financial stability has nothing to do with how much money you have, but how you choose to manage that money.
“Why don’t you just say the real reason you want to abort which is your own evil refusal to take responsability for your overly promisculous lifestyle, We know the truth anyway…”
it sounds like you promote children as being a punishment for any type of lifestyle you don’t approve of.
“If you think that people have somehow only struggled to provide for children what you called FINANCIAL STABILITY in these last 50 years since abortion has been legal you are wrong.”
i’m not sure what your point is. you DO realize that abortion isn’t a new thing, right? abortions and the abandonment of children have been around for thousands of years. that’s why we have fairy tales about children wandering the woods alone (Hansel and Gretel). we also have lists of powerful abortifacients dating back thousands of years. the difference is that, with abortion legal, women can have the procedure done safely.
“No one here is begging women to raise children they do not want.”
what do you call forcing a woman to be pregnant? is that not part of motherhood?
@RobertLeeRE - actually, as the person advocating for forced parenthood, you’re far more responsible than i am. my only pain will come from being a human incubator. as for sin, i’m not Christian… i have bigger things to worry about.
@Jenny_Wren -
“A lot of people say that “Older children don’t get adopted, though, so adoption doesn’t work!” Well. That’s why it’s good to give them up for adoption while they’re infants..and then it does work. “
that might be the dumbest thing i ever heard. i’m not going to go through a pregnancy unwillingly because some couples are too selfish to consider older, racially different, or special needs children for adoption. we should worry about the children who already exist and need parents, rather than forcing women to put more children into the system.
@grim_truth - my decision to be pro-choice doesn’t stem from whether a child is better off dead. i believe that, as long as the fetus is physically dependent upon a single being, that other being should have full say in whether that dependency continues. until they come up with a way to transplant feti to the wombs of women who want to be pregnant (pre-birth adoption?), i will always be pro-choice.
@flapper_femme_fatale - There are plenty of people throughout history that have survived physical abuse by their tormentors that went on to live full productive lives. If you wish to join the ranks of heroin users as such that cause pain on the thing living in side of you, go for it. It is your sin and your pain you would have to live with. No excuses. Laws that work. Laws that promote life.
@flapper_femme_fatale
-Murder has also been around for 1000′s of years and that is no excuse to make it legal. No force except forcing people to be responsible. Your right, you’re not a Christian, but I am. That is why you heard my perspective and not yours. Its called communication where there is an exchange of opposing ideas. Now as far as punishment and abuse your the one that said you would
abuse your child, not me. For this reason you have no love and are incapable of even discussing an issue about weaker life forms and whether or not unheard voices should have an advocate to protect their rights. You cannot do this because you yourself said you would abuse a weaker life form. This is called child abuse and there are laws to put people like you in prison should you ever do something like that. Your own words expose your lack of love and lack ofempathy which is required in any government that promotes the liberty and welfare of the masses. That is why I am Pro-Choice. I believe the baby gets to choose life .
@flapper_femme_fatale - Oh nonsense. There are lines and lines of people waiting to adopt, even going to foreign countries to adopt spending upwards of around $25,000 or more just to have a baby to love and raise in a loving family.
@RobertLeeRE - and yet, we still have children spending their whole time waiting for adoption. please, don’t pretend like demand is meeting supply here.
@RobertLeeRE -
“Now as far as punishment and abuse your the one that said you would
abuse your child, not me. ”
a fetus is not a child, particularly under abuse and neglect laws. you’re incorrect in saying that there are laws protecting the welfare of feti. and that’s my point. you want to ban abortion but seem to ignore the reality of all that goes into making a pregnancy healthy and successful… AND how much of that is done willingly by the woman, rather than being forced through law. do you propose laws forcing pregnant women to see doctors, change their diets, and do everything else that promotes a healthy pregnancy?
“For this reason you have no love”
not at all. i just choose to focus my love on beings already out of wombs. and of course, if i got pregnant willingly, i’d love it unconditionally. my mother had an abortion long before i was born. that didn’t prevent her from showering me with all the love an attention a child could ever want. if the only way you can justify your pro-life stance is to demonize and generalize women who would choose abortion, you’re just as incapable of love and empathy as you think i am.
@flapper_femme_fatale - So where do you draw the line? Is a fetus a fetus 1 week before it is birthed? How abot 3 weeks before, or how about two months before. How do you define fetus and differentiate from baby? For years many states would allow an abortion in the last trimester of child growth in the womb. when does a baby stop being a fetus and become a baby? Where do you draw that line? Some day someone may draw a line that effects you and your standing on the wrong side of that line. Maybe when your a senior citezen, or have cancer or some disease and you are weak and no one wants to speak up for you.
Actually this is not true, you have no idea what your speaking of. Many states now prsecute abusers like you who are pregnant and take drugs like heroin or crack on child abuse charges.
@flapper_femme_fatale - Yes, demand is not being met. These statistics are easily obtained anywhere. That is why it is common place for people to fly to Eastern Europe or some other country just to adopt a child at a cost that can exceed $50,000 dollars. The idea the demand is being met is so rediculous its nonsense.
@RobertLeeRE -
“So where do you draw the line?”
i draw the line at physical detachment and dependency. unlike a child or senior citizen, a fetus is physically attached and can ONLY be supported by a single other human being. until they change that and come up with a way to transplant feti, i believe that a woman should have full say in how long that dependency should continue.
“Some day someone may draw a line that effects you and your standing on the wrong side of that line. ”
well, not to get off-topic, but as an agnostic that’s pretty much already been done by your god and many who worship him
“Yes, demand is not being met.”
then explain why 20,000 children “age out” of the US foster care system each year.
“Many states now prsecute abusers like you who are pregnant and take drugs like heroin or crack on child abuse charges.”
true. but i’m talking about treating refusal of medical care,refusal to abstain from alcohol or cigarettes, refusal to change diet, etc. as abuse.
@flapper_femme_fatale - My whole point was that that is no argument against adoption not working. Adoption of infants *does* work, 100% of the time–that is why there is no excuse not to opt for giving the child a chance at life, even if you don’t want him.
Also–were *you* arguing that the existence of another older child is enough to take away a person’s right to life? That doesn’t make sense.
@Jenny_Wren - so i should be a walking, talking incubator for nine months against my will? no thanks.
@flapper_femme_fatale - Whether or not you agree, doesn’t take away the value of a human life. “Feeling” like doing something has no bearing on whether one should do it or not, whether it’s right to do it or not.
Feelings have no bearing on what is ultimately right and wrong.
@Jenny_Wren - then you feel comfortable forcing women to be pregnant? interesting. personally, the thought sickens me far more than an abortion. it reduces the woman to a baby-making machine, with no control over her life for nine months.
@flapper_femme_fatale - Only in the same way that I feel comfortable “making” a man hold in his anger, even if he *feels* that it is right to murder someone.
Temporary discomfort doesn’t dehumanize someone. Making human life disposable because it is convenient, does.
@flapper_femme_fatale - I don’t think anyone “forced” a woman to be pregnant. But you surely understand why people would get passionate about not ending the life of whom they believe is a living human being? If someone truly believes that unborn baby to be a person why wouldn’t they stop at nothing to ensure it’s survival?
@flapper_femme_fatale - The woman had a choice to become pregnant. Why is it, that you pro-choicers regard 9 months of VOLUNTARY (very few abortions occur because of rape, stop using it as an argument) discomfort as a higher regard than a human life. An unborn child is a human, wether you like it or not. It has it’s own unique DNA code, therefore, scientifically, ethically, and morally it is a human. Argue all you want, you are indeed advocating murder of a human whom has done no wrong to anyone.
@Jenny_Wren - “Temporary discomfort doesn’t dehumanize someone. “
No, but being an unthinking undeveloped sac of cells does.
@Celestial_Teapot - It’s a human life, no matter how your parse it. I am also “just a sack of cells”.
@flapper_femme_fatale - What you call a “forced pregnancy” is actually and in fact, “taking responsibility for your actions.”
The natural benefits of a moral code like Judeo-Christianity which prohibits sex outside of marriage, is to help assure a stable home environment for the little ones.
Killing unborn children as a result of moral profligacy speaks to a total loss of civility. Such a society will descend into barbarism.
The narcissistic nature of your thinking also speaks to a total loss of happiness. Mankind found out 1000s of years ago that happiness is achieved through virtue not moral profligacy.
@flapper_femme_fatale - You are one extremely shallow and selfish person.If you don’t want to get pregneant or have any kids get your tubes tied,then you can have sex till your hearts content and not worry about having some stupid baby pop into your womb.You are a messed up person just like so many others who think killing an unborn baby is a mother’s right.May God have mercy on your soul.
@Jenny_Wren -
“Temporary discomfort doesn’t dehumanize someone.”
temporary discomfort? honey, i’m betting you’ve never been pregnant. from what i’ve heard, it’s a nightmare even when it’s wanted and planned for. your body changes drastically, and so does your behavior and schedule. you completely reassess your diet for foods that are harmful to feti, you pay tons of money for all kinds of tests, and you have to worry about taking time off of work. i find it utterly ridiculous that you see going through all of that against your will as “discomfort.”
@flapper_femme_fatale - It’s not against your will. One takes that chance when they have sex, just as they take the chance that their brakes may fail on their car when they drive. Are you also arguing that it would be ok to get out of the car, pull a gun out and shoot someone you just hit because you don’t want to take off work for the lawsuit, and make other adjustments? It’s pretty much the same argument.
@grim_truth
“The woman had a choice to become pregnant.”
i don’t consider sex as consent to be pregnant any more than it’s consent to get an STD and keep it for nine months. no contraception works 100% of the time. and unlike you, i place value in sex beyond procreation.
“Why is it, that you pro-choicers regard 9 months of VOLUNTARY (very few abortions occur because of rape, stop using it as an argument) discomfort as a higher regard than a human life. “
because i believe that no one, under any circumstances, should be forced into parenthood. for me, it’s as simple as that. i will ALWAYS value the privacy and freedom of a thinking, breathing woman over a clump of cells the size of my thumb. . i demand that right for myself, and for any other woman who ends up pregnant unexpectedly.
i also think that more than human DNA goes into determining what is considered a legal person. i don’t believe a being physically attached to another being has equal rights, especially if they cannot function independently and were not willingly attached to begin with.
“ It has it’s own unique DNA code, therefore, scientifically, ethically, and morally it is a human. ”
cancer cells have their own DNA, unique from the host’s. are they protected under the same rights?
@justfinethanku -
“But you surely understand why people would get passionate about not ending the life of whom they believe is a living human being?”
i just cannot fathom caring more about a clump of cells with no thoughts or feelings, than about an independent human being.
@Somefishytales -
“If you don’t want to get pregneant or have any kids get your tubes tied,then you can have sex till your hearts content and not worry about having some stupid baby pop into your womb”
why do you assume i don’t want children eventually? just because i’m financially, physically and emotionally unfit for pregnancy now, that doesn’t mean i won’t be in the future. and, for the record, i’m not currently having sex. so the frequency (or in my case, lack thereof) of sexual intercourse has little to do with it.
“May God have mercy on your soul.”
/eyeroll i hope God has more mercy for people like you, who want control over a woman’s body and value clumps of cells more than independent people.
@grim_truth -
“ Are you also arguing that it would be ok to get out of the car, pull a gun out and shoot someone you just hit because you don’t want to take off work for the lawsuit, and make other adjustments? “
if that person somehow became physically attached to me because of the accident? absolutely. maybe not shooting (i don’t own guns and will never do so) but i’d have them cut off of me in a heartbeat. no human being has the right to be physically attached to another being. parents make that judgment call all the time, when they separate conjoined twins and let one of them die. why is it any worse when a woman is making that decision about her own body?
@flapper_femme_fatale - That still doesn’t trump a human’s right to live.
And my mother went through six pregnancies–I know the difficulties of pregnancy. That still doesn’t trump the value of human life.
Rather–the difficulties of *any* situation doesn’t make something the wrong less wrong, or the right less right. That has no bearing on what is right and wrong.
@Celestial_Teapot - ”Undeveloped” is false. “Developing” is true, and is true of every one of us.
“Unthinking” is an arbitrary classification and leads you to some interesting conclusions: does a person whose thinking is impaired have fewer rights than someone whose thinking is functioning optimally? Given your implicit assumption, the obvious line to be drawn is that the closer-to-optimal one’s cognitive abilities are, the more human he is, since “thinking” encompasses a spectrum of abilities.
@justfinethanku - @Somefishytales - @grim_truth - May I ask you dear gentleman why are you not attacking me the way you’re going for @flapper_femme_fatale - if we both have (weirdly) the same stance on this one? Is it maybe because it’s not easy to disestimate my stance by saying I’m selfish for not wanting kids or irresponsible for wanting to have sex without consequences?Or just you don’t find useful to try to force me into motherhood cuz I’ve choose to be a mom willingly and happy?
It just seems to me like what really bother yall is the idea of women having a choice to be something different that what you want and that is really inhuman and unfair. Makes me feel that I could be forced into things I don’t desire just because people feels entitled to make those calls for me and no lady likes being forced
@flapper_femme_fatale - It’s not about being physically attached. But let’s play that game. You chose to have someone sewn to you, by skin and organs, not by clothes (this is the same as having sex). Then you decide, not to remove them, but to crack their skull open and scoop out their brains. You’re ok with that?
As far as conjoined twins, when parents make the decision to seperate them, it’s usually when both will live. In the rare occasion that it will knowingly result in the death of one, that child will die regardless of seperation or not. That is euthenasia, a completely seperate thing than killing a child that would otherwise live, and has it’s own arguments seperate from abortion.
@xXxlovelylollipop - not to be rude, but there’s a big difference in attacking a person and attacking their stance. You haven’t had your stance attacked because you haven’t provided completely ignorant arguments as flapper has. You present your case as your opinion and give reasons why. You also do in a polite manner. Flapper does not. But the points I’ve made regarding fetuses being unique people still holds. They have their own unique DNA code, seperate from the mother’s, which makes them individuals. Individuals deserve the right to life, not appointed by any man, but inherent.
By arguing that children should die because of inconvenience, discomfort, drugs, etc, one would also have to argue for the full abolishment of welfare, as the same circumstances apply.
@grim_truth -
“You chose to have someone sewn to you, by skin and organs, not by clothes (this is the same as having sex). “
i would disagree. one, pregnancy is not guaranteed to happen with every act of sex. two, i’m having sex with the man… not the fetus. a better example would be going to sleep with one person NOT attached to you, and waking up with someone totally different attached to you by an umbilical cord.
AND, when i stop having sex with a man, he doesn’t die.
“Then you decide, not to remove them, but to crack their skull open and scoop out their brains.”
most aborted feti don’t have skulls. if you’re going to make ridiculous statements like this, i don’t see any reason in continuing to speak to you. i’m not even sure why i am now, since you’ve blocked me a billion times in the past…
“As far as conjoined twins, when parents make the decision to seperate them, it’s usually when both will live.”
care to show some stats? besides, the frequency of survival isn’t relevant if you’re trying to argue a “right to life” that includes being physically attached to someone.
@xXxlovelylollipop - hehe i appreciate your comment. i probably came across as more blunt about my opinion.
@Jenny_Wren -
“That still doesn’t trump a human’s right to live. “
so what is the right based on? human DNA? all of our cells have that, which means all of us are committing murder 24/7.
potential? in no other instance is a law based on something’s potential to be something else. a fetus could grow up to be the next serial killer of the century. there’s also the chance that the fetus will miscarry anyway.
@Jenny_Wren -
also…
“And my mother went through six pregnancies”
.. and my mother had an abortion. what’s your point? neither of our experiences makes it okay for us to decide what is best for someone else.
@flapper_femme_fatale - You were questioning my knowledge of what pregnant women might go through; you were questioning even my second-hand knowledge. So I provided you with proof that I know pretty well what a pregnant woman goes through, being one of the oldest, and one who helped her through four or so pregnancies.
..Even seeing all the went through, it doesn’t change the value of a human life.
@Jenny_Wren - I have 3 brothers and many cousins, never could have prepared me to what it is to be pregnant.
@xXxlovelylollipop - I’m not sure I follow, all I did was ask you to simply look at things from the perspective of someone who believes that a baby is a living human being. If you are someone who believes that, then you cannot justify abortion. And you can not allow it to happen if there is anything you can do about it.
For the same reason I protest the war, because we are killing innocent lives, I protest abortion. For the same reason I oppose the death penalty, because I do not believe we should be allowed to choose whether or not someone else lives or dies.
@flapper_femme_fatale - A human fetus is a single being; it has a unique human DNA, and the ability to grow into a full-grown human being, should it not be murdered.
Going by your rational, an infant isn’t a person, because it hasn’t reached its full potential. But killing an infant is murder. That should tell you that–the potential for life isn’t why a fetus should be protected. It is because it is single, distinct human life ALREADY–and just like an infant, its life should be valued and protected. Just like an adult, just like an old person–its life should be valued and protected.
There is no arguing away the fact that it is itself a distinct being, separate from its mother. It is NOT its mother–it is not a tumor with DNA. It is a separate being with human DNA, that would be protected under law at the stage of infancy, which is mere month’s difference from its stage in the womb.
If merely being attached to a person strips someone of their right to life, than being attached to someone strips someone of their humanity. But as we’ve seen, by observing how the fetus has its own distinct human DNA unique to itself, that is impossible. It is umistakeably human–in the womb or outside. Attached to its mother through a feeding tube, or when the feeding tube is cut. It doesn’t magically have its own DNA only after the feeding tube is cut.
With that knowledge–should we disgregard its humanity, because the mother doesn’t feel up to giving birth? No. A human life is unquestionably valuable, enough to be protected even if the mother doesn’t want it to live. Just as an infant, outside the womb, should be protected by the law, even if the mother doesn’t want it to live.
Circumstance doesn’t dictate which human life is more valuable, and which can live. All humans have a right to life, no matter how anyone feels.
@xXxlovelylollipop - I feel prepared from observing and talking with my mom and other pregnant women.
@Jenny_Wren -
“Going by your rational, an infant isn’t a person, because it hasn’t reached its full potential. ”
i would disagree. i define personhood as the ability to exist independently from any other particular being. an infant, unlike a fetus, can be taken care of by anyone. whether it has unique DNA is irrelevant to me.
“If merely being attached to a person strips someone of their right to life, than being attached to someone strips someone of their humanity.”
that depends on how you define humanity, and whether that alone supports a right to life that trumps another person’s right to control her own body. i don’t think anyone has a right to life, when that right conflicts with a woman’s rights. and for me, the rights of the woman trump the rights of the fetus because the fetus is incapable of living without the woman.
“..Even seeing all the went through, it doesn’t change the value of a human life.”
we value things differently. i value a woman’s right to control her motherhood and body. unlike you, i could never tell a woman they HAVE to be pregnant if they don’t want to be. to me, no potential life is worth that loss of freedom or the trauma it could cause. and i know that because of the kind of trauma it would have caused my mother, and could cause me.
@flapper_femme_fatale - So basicly you’re saying you have no problem with women who abort in the third trimester 1 week before the baby is due for you draw the line at the birth of the child. WOW you’re a real MONSTER with skewered ideas of justice and truth for the innocent and weak that have no voice. Seems like liberty would never survive too many of your cousins in Congress.
@RobertLeeRE -
“So basicly you’re saying you have no problem with women who abort in the third trimester 1 week before the baby is due for you draw the line at the birth of the child. ”
of course. a post-viability abortion doesn’t necessarily have to lead to the fetus’ death. one option for late-term abortions is induced labor. what i find strange is that you’re implying that abortions done earlier in pregnancy are somehow more acceptable.
“WOW you’re a real MONSTER with skewered ideas of justice and truth for the innocent and weak that have no voice.”
considering the type of person you are, your opinion of me is immaterial. i usually don’t care about personal attacks from bigots such as yourself.